I’m Daniel Florien. I was an evangelical Christian for over a decade, completely convinced that God was real and Jesus was alive today. I attended Bible college to train to be a pastor. I worked at a Christian church for many years. I have “led people to Christ.” I have left tracts in bathrooms. I have knocked on hundreds of doors asking people to repent and believe in Jesus.
I now know I was wrong…
He’s getting a number of interesting responses. Feel free to share your own at his site.
Billy Graham, in his syndicated column, received this question:
DEAR DR. GRAHAM: Our 17-year-old daughter says she doesn’t believe in God anymore, and now she even refuses to go to church with us. When we try to talk with her about it we just end up in an argument. What can we do? — Mrs. S.McD.
Despite the fact that I agree with the daughter and not her parents, I actually don’t mind Graham’s answer that much, at least when compared to what others in his position may have said.
The most important thing you can do is to pray for her — because only God can overcome her spiritual resistance and draw her back to Himself…
But you also can let her know you that love her, despite your differences — and by doing so, you’ll be showing her that God loves her also. Don’t let your discussions degenerate into arguments; this will only make her more determined to keep her position. In other words, don’t let this become a test of wills between you — your will battling against her will — because almost the last thing she wants to do right now is admit she is wrong…
Of course, she’s not wrong. By going against what she was raised to believe, she’s probably quite intelligent.
But what is Graham saying?
Pray for her — we know that won’t achieve anything tangible, but it won’t hurt the daughter.
Show her you love her — which is exactly what she needs.
It’s much better than a few other alternatives we’ve heard before: Make her talk to a pastor, send her to a “Jesus Camp”-like place, try to argue with her, etc.
Not surprisingly, Graham thinks the daughter is an atheist because she “wants to run her own life — and that’s far easier to do if you push God out of your life” rather than the fact that atheism’s just a more honest depiction of reality. But I doubt anyone would expect him to say otherwise.
Earlier this year, I wrote about the “Free Day Away” program at Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri. Here’s what I wrote then:
It holds a number of different training programs, including Basic Combat Training (BCT). BCT is the first training where service members are taken from civilian life and trained in basic army actions. Therefore, during this training (approximately nine weeks), service members have essentially no rights. They are controlled in what they do and where they go. They don’t get the luxuries of everyday life. More to the point, there is no authorization to leave post. You’re stuck at the base for over two months.
With one exception.
It’s called the Free Day Away.
Tabernacle Baptist Church is authorized to pick up several busloads of trainees to be taken 30 miles away to Lebanon, Missouri where the church is located. Outside the church, the trainees are given privileges they can’t get at the base. They get candy, soda, and home cooking. They get to bowl and play sports. They can use a cell phone.
After that, they go inside the church for a “special ceremony.” It’s over the top. All fire and brimstone. As stereotypical as it can get. There’s a dunking booth in the front so you can do a walk-in baptismal. During the ceremony, people are invited up to the stage to be saved. In front of the stage are several people, waiting to give one-on-one counseling to the prospective “savees.”
… “The coercive religious practices at Fort Leonard Wood are an outrage,” [Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director] continued, “and the Department of Defense should put a stop to them immediately.”
During the church service, soldiers are told that they are all sinners who must repent and that they “must be saved now or go to hell.” Soldiers willing to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior are instructed to step into the aisles of the church and enroll in a six-lesson correspondence course that will lead to their “personal salvation.”
…
Americans United, in its letter (PDF), urged Gordon S. Heddell, acting inspector general for the Department of Defense, to conduct a full investigation into the Army’s “Free Day Away” practice.
Hopefully, they can find a secular alternative to help troops get a well-deserved break from their duties, if only for a day.
Chicago Tribune columnist Eric Zorn added one sideline to his piece about Rob Sherman, in reference to his battle with anti-atheist Illinois State Rep. Monique Davis:
“I’ve forgiven her completely and I’m always happy to see her at the Capitol,” said Sherman.
“I give him a hug, he gives me a hug,” said Davis. “We have absolutely made peace. I totally respect his rights as a non-believer and his efforts to separate church and state.”
As for Davis’ comment that “it’s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy [atheism] exists”?
“That was not the right thing to say and I have apologized to him for that,” Davis said Monday. “I was very upset because someone had just come and whispered in my ear that another child in Chicago had died (and a result to gun violence.)”
And how about Sherman’s response in which he referred to her (not maliciously, he says) as a negro?
Sherman said he has discussed with Davis his subsequent use of the word “negro” to describe her and that matter is settled as well. “We now have an excellent relationship,” he said.
Looks like a pleasant end to that battle…
Though Ben Dreidel asks a couple good questions in the comments:
So, has Monique Davis ever retracted her sentiments that it is dangerous for children to learn of atheism or that we believe in destroying instead of creating?
Senator Charles Grassley (R-IA) would seem like a natural choice to be part of the voting delegation representing his state for the Republican National Convention in Minnesota this September.
Joseph Conn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State writes:
You’d think Grassley, who has served in the Senate since 1980, would be a favorite of the Religious Right. Last year, he scored 100 percent on a scorecard put out by Family Research Council Action and Focus on the Family Action, two of the most militant Religious Right groups. Plus, Grassley is a conservative Baptist.
But the Christian conservatives are taking over and they’re not happy with him:
With a majority of nine out of 17 members on the Iowa Republican central committee, religious conservatives made Iowa Christian Alliance President Steve Scheffler chairman of Iowa’s 40-member delegation in a vote immediately after their state party convention July 12.
…
“The Republican Party of Iowa is moving significantly to the right on social issues,” the just-ousted Iowa Republican National Committee member Steve Roberts told The Washington Times. “It hurts John McCain’s chances to win this state.”
…
“[The state’s Republican party is] pretty well controlled now by the Christian Alliance,” Mr. Roberts said. “If somebody came to me and wanted to be a delegate to the national party convention, I used to say, ‘Talk to the state party chairman or to Grassley.’ Now it’s very simple. You go to the Christian Alliance, and they determine who is a delegate, and you have to do exactly as they say.”
That’s a (now former) Republican leader saying that.
So why are the Christians unhappy with Grassley?
Probably because he’s the senator who initiated the federal investigation of six televangelists for their strange finances.
Some of those targeted televangelists have responded to all his questions and information requests (including Benny Hinn). Others (like Creflo Dollar) are avoiding him at all costs.
Scheffler denies this is the reason for Grassley not being given the voting privilege:
“That had nothing to with it at all,” Mr. Scheffler said Sunday. He said Mr. Grassley and the other members of the Iowa congressional delegation already had national convention floor privileges - meaning they could walk the floor but not vote.
He was asked if Mr. Grassley had been chosen as a delegate, would he also have been expected to be chairman of the Iowa delegation.
“I suppose it’s true. He would have been chairman,” Mr. Scheffler said. “But the most important point is that we wanted grass-roots activists to attend to help get John McCain and Iowa House candidates elected.”
I don’t buy that explanation. If he’s lying (and the investigation does have something to do with his denial), this is a serious problem. Grassley seems to be getting punished because he wants to make sure Christians aren’t being cheated out of their money by scam artists who are (intentionally or not) posing as faith healers and God’s mouthpieces. He should be commended for his investigations, not punished for them.
AU’s Conn adds:
This little incident demonstrates what we’ve said all along: the Religious Right movement is theocratic, it is extreme and, ultimately, it is about political power.
Speaking of This American Life, the episode I referred to earlier discussed death and how people had to live with the fact that they (accidentally or otherwise) killed someone in the past — like the young driver who collided with his high school classmate as she rode her bike and turned into his car’s lane, killing her. He could never get her out of his mind even though police reports said the accident was unavoidable and not his fault.
It raises a larger question in my mind that may or may not be as depressing:
What do you think about constantly?
What thought never seems to escape your mind, no matter what you do?
Maybe it’s the husband or wife you love so much. An ex who is no longer in your life. A child you lost. A parent who passed away. Something embarrassing that happened to you as a child.
Is there anyone or anything that you are reminded of every day?
If you didn’t listen to This American Life over the weekend, you missed a really disturbing opening story.
In essence, it was about David Maxon who, as a child, attended a fundamentalist church camp as a kid. One night, he challenged the Devil to show himself.
That’s when a horrible thunderstorm began. Lightning from that storm struck six kids, two of whom died as a result.
One of the two kids killed was David’s close friend.
For years, David lived with the guilt that he was responsible for his friend’s death.
Of course, adults around him told him it wasn’t his fault. And they were right.
But this wasn’t the reaction he expected. In fact, it seemed to contradict what he had been taught. Whatever happened to the notion that one shouldn’t challenge the Devil? If he was being taught the Truth, wasn’t he, somehow, directly responsible for his friend’s death?
David recalls:
It’s kind of like, after I talked with the priests, I thought, like, “don’t you believe this, dude?” I mean… here you are, a priest, and I’m telling you… this very serious thing happened within the system that you advocate and then you’re just telling me to ignore it. It’s almost like, “Oh, we’ll drop this because it’s convenient now… This stuff is only real as long as it’s not taken really seriously.”
It wasn’t until he broke away from his faith years later that he was able to shake the guilt.
For anyone who questions whether religion can actually brainwash a child, here’s some damning evidence.
The whole story is under 10 minutes and takes place at the very start of the program. You can download the episode here (MP3). If you don’t already subscribe to the podcast of the show, you can do so with this link in iTunes.
Jesus also took a lot of grief for hanging with the wrong crowd — paupers, thieves — even a “scorned” woman. Well, all one needs to do is look at Obama, and marvel at the way he stuck by a life partner with controversial beliefs — as well as his unusual friend in the Weather Underground. I think Jesus could learn a thing or two about loyalty, here. And yet, Obama also knew exactly when it was time to move on from a destructive relationship, as he did with Reverend Wright. If only Jesus had seen that coming with Judas.
He also calls Jesus a flip-flopper for preaching forgiveness while at the same time talking about Hell for all those “who do wrong against God.”
Pastafarians: it looks like your family’s talents are needed.
Wife Swap, ABC’s hit primetime reality show, is looking for Pastafarian families for an upcoming episode.
Families must consist of two parents and at least one child between 7 and 17.
Families that appear on the show receive a generous honorarium. Anyone who refers a family receives $1,000 if that family is cast in an episode.
Email Greg at your earliest convenience if you or anyone you know have what it takes for this amazing opportunity. Please include names and ages of all family members and a brief description of your family and a photo.
Bobby Henderson says it’s a legitimate request. Sounds like they want an atheist family for the show.
Please donate any amount you'd like to the Secular Student Alliance by using the PayPal link below. The SSA appreciates your thoughts. (But not your prayers.)
